Kickas.org Forums Treatments, Drugs and Alternatives NSD and diet-related; Zark -- Rah, Rah, Rutin!!!

Here is some more info about bioflavanoids, which sums it up nicely...

"Naringen, Hesperitin and Rutin

These three bioflavonoids are also efficient antioxidants and work synergistically with vitamin C and the proanthocyanidins to scavenge free radicals. Moreover, this particular trio of flavonoids has significant antiallergenic properties. Studies have indicated that these compounds can inhibit the release of histamine, which is the chemical cause of a whole host of miserable allergic symptoms. We hear so much about anti-inflammatory drugs today and they are routinely prescribed for a number of disorders. Several laboratory tests support the fact that these flavonoids can significantly decrease inflammation by preventing histamine from permeating vessel walls. Obviously, any allergic condition, edema or other inflammatory diseases would substantially benefit from this vascular action. In addition, if you bruise easily, this group of bioflavonoids is particularly desirable. Naringin and hesperitin significantly prevent capillary fragility and interstitial bleeding."
http://www.nutraceutical.com/educate/view_article.cfm?edu_article_index=219

"So long and thanks for all the fish" - Hitch Hikers Guide To The Galaxy

Hi Arjan ,I've started on the solgar one too,also take lipoic acid by the same company .Tim.

Hi Zark.are we thinking that the Rutin is knocking back the PGE2 ?( inflammatory) and do we also think that because 80% of AS people have gut lesions, it is helping to heal our leaky guts too? Tim

Zark... thanks so much for the info.

The tummy thing has settled down. Now, of course, I am not sure if it was the Rutin, or if it was a combination of the prednisone and my pain pills I was taking at the time... (I have been going through a fairly bad flare this last month)

I was real interested to read that the Rutin inhibits the release of histamine. I think that this supplement may work for me on multiple levels, as I have allergies to mosquito's (and yes... I live in the country.... under pine trees.... by water.... ) (no... I won't move! So hopefully, I won't need to take anti-histamines all summer also.

This is day 4 for the Rutin, and I am just over a month on the NSD/B complex supplements. The flare is still there... though it has lessened.

I have made an appointment to see a Naturopath next Monday, though he is scaring me a little. He says I am to make out a budget of what I can afford and then he will work to my budget. I tried explaining that I'm on LTD and that I don't have a budget for a Naturopath! He was real excited about the AS... I don't think he has treated anyone with this before.... I just hope he doesn't get too carried away.... I have a kid graduating high school this month! Lot's of $$$$$ needed there!!

Thanks again for all your info....

Maxine

May the roof above us never fall in, and the many friends gathered below it never fall out. - Irish Blessing

And it works, takes off another 15%, now down to 5-10% activity ...

Zark, guru ...

Arjan

Linda, I think the selenium (Sn) supplement would be 200mcg - not 200mg (1mg = 1000mcg). 200mg would be 200,000mcg of selennium. I have a supplement that says not to exceed 100mcg, but I wouldn't worry much as this is a conservative limit. I have seen abstracts that talked of doses in that range.

Amazing how little selennium we need, and yet some countries like New Zealand have virtually none in their soil - making selennium defficiency quite common there. All the intensive farming leeches out the trace minerals, but unfortunately nobody bothers to put the trace minerals back into the soil... blame the agricultural revolution I guess

Hoping the good fortune continues !
z

"So long and thanks for all the fish" - Hitch Hikers Guide To The Galaxy

OOOPS, you're correct Zark. I meant mcg!!!
LindaG

Tim,
Honestly I can't say for sure - as there are a bunch of ways that Rutin could be working. The drop in PGE2 in the abstract could be secondary to something else reducing disease activity.. in that case the body would no longer need to produce excessive prostaglandins (PGE2).. I am very sensitive to many things. I get mouth ulcers whenever I take NSAID's and even if I take excess Zinc or Magnesium !! However I have used Rutin without a problem for almost a year.

I would say that rutin, quercetin and other bioflavanoids will help heal gut lesion, since they strengthen fine capillaries, also because they inhibit the allergic response (histamine release). But there is also the fact that they strengthen connective tissue. They are antioxidants too, and oxidative stress is very high in rheumatic diseases.. that is why I am interested in Linda using large amounts Selennium - as that is called an "antioxidant mineral", since your body uses it to make its own antioxidants. . . Add to that the fact that bioflavanoids tend to be metal chelators...

so many factors to consider..
z

"So long and thanks for all the fish" - Hitch Hikers Guide To The Galaxy

Maxine,
got to hear your tummy is better. About Naturopath's.. I went to one once in the past. After a few sessions I quit as I thought he was far more interested in my money than my health. That's the curse of money I guess.. money comes before people these days. He was far too keen to put me on ~20 supplements all at once ! I don't think so !. Part of the problem I guess is that they make money out of the supplements / etc that you buy from them - which means they have a vested interest in selling you many things that you dont need.

On the other hand, I think their philosophy is quite good, particularly that they are keen to use and learn about the herbs / etc provided by nature. And also that they are willing to challenge our current beliefs about health and disease. Which I believe are gaping holes in the medical profession. GP's are not well informed about natural remedies...

I guess I would recomend a naturopath who has treated AS before, so that you wont be his guinea pig. Or better still, find a naturopath who actually has AS - which means he is his own guinea pig .. hard to find eh?, but the naturopath I went to said he knew one ! But I never had the nerve to ask for his number . Perhaps there is some "Naturopath Association" I could call..

all the best,
z

"So long and thanks for all the fish" - Hitch Hikers Guide To The Galaxy

To all,
Oh these rutin stories sound very good, finally Zark seems to have some well deserved followers. Probably I will try it too in the next future. For those who don't want to be dependent on food supplements I searched for some natural sources and the effects of cooking on rutin in vegetables.

One good source of rutin is tomato paste:

Occurrence of flavonols in tomatoes and tomato-based products.

Stewart AJ, Bozonnet S, Mullen W, Jenkins GI, Lean ME, Crozier A.

Division of Biochemistry and Molecular Biology, Institute of Biomedical and Life Sciences, University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, Scotland, U.K.

The flavonol contents of 20 varieties of tomato fruit were investigated in relation to variety, size, season, and country of origin. Ten commonly consumed tomato-based food products were also assessed. Free and conjugated flavonols were identified and quantified using reversed-phase HPLC. Ninety-eight percent of flavonols detected in tomatoes were found to occur in the skin. Tomatoes contained, primarily as conjugates, quercetin and kaempferol. The main quercetin conjugate was identified as rutin (quercetin 3-rhamnosylglucoside) by LC-MS. The total flavonol content of the different varieties of tomato that were analyzed varied from 1.3 to 22.2 microgram/g of fresh weight (fw). Smaller cherry tomato fruits originating from warm sunny climates, such as Spain and Israel, were found to contain the highest concentration of flavonols. Among the tomato-based products investigated, tomato juice and tomato puree were rich in flavonols, containing 14-16 microgram/mL and 70 microgram/g fw, respectively. In contrast to fresh tomatoes, most tomato-based products contained significant amounts of free flavonols.

However not much or none of the rutin comes in the bloodstream after eating a meal with cooked tomatoe paste:

Naringenin from cooked tomato paste is bioavailable in men.

Bugianesi R, Catasta G, Spigno P, D'Uva A, Maiani G.

Antioxidant Research Laboratory, National Institute for Food and Nutrition Research, 546-00178 Rome, Italy. bugianesi@inran.it

Naringenin has been shown to exert antiestrogenic, cholesterol-lowering and antioxidant activities, as well as an indirect modulation on the metabolism of many xenobiotics. It is one of the most abundant polyphenols in tomato. Given the widespread consumption of tomato (Lycopersicum esculentum) and tomato-based products, this study was designed to determine whether plasma levels of naringenin were detectable in five men after consumption of a test meal containing 150 mg of cooked tomato paste. Naringenin intake with the test meal was 3.8 mg. Blood was drawn from fasting subjects and 2, 4, 6, 8 and 24 h after the meal. To compare the results with a control, the same meal without tomato paste (control meal) was administered to the same subjects 2 wk later. Analyses were performed using high-performance liquid chromatography coupled with a CoulArray electrochemical detector. The peak plasma concentration was 0.12 +/- 0.03 micro mol/L 2 h after the meal. Unconjugated naringenin was not detected. Naringenin was not detected in plasma at any time after consumption of the control meal. In addition to naringenin, we detected rutin and chlorogenic acid in tomato paste, but these polyphenols and their derivatives (quercetin and caffeic acid) were not detected in plasma at any time. To the best of our knowledge, this is the first study demonstrating naringenin bioavailability in humans after consumption of a meal containing cooked tomato paste.

Probably the cooking is the cause of this as the following research describes:

Influence of cooking process on phenolic marker compounds of vegetables.

Andlauer W, Stumpf C, Hubert M, Rings A, Furst P.

Institute for Biological Chemistry & Nutrition, University of Hohenheim, D-70593 Stuttgart, Germany. Wilfried.Andlauer@hevs.ch

Phenolic compounds are secondary plant metabolites which have long been associated with flavor and color characteristics of fruits and vegetables. These phenolic compounds attract great interest due to their postulated health protecting properties. However, adequate intakes and absorption rate of phenolic compounds are necessary for these beneficial effects. Until now, little is known about alterations of phenolic compounds content by the cooking process. In the present study, the influence of different volumes of cooking water on the amount of selected phenolic marker compounds resting in the vegetables was assessed. In zucchini, rutin was quantified as a marker for flavonoid glycosides. Chlorogenic acid, representative of phenolic acids was analyzed in carrots. In beans, rutin and quercitrin, both belonging to flavonoid glycosides, were investigated. In potatoes, chlorogenic and caffeic acid were determined. The cooking of zucchini, beans and carrots with smaller amounts of water resulted in significant higher content of phenolic phytochemicals in the vegetables compared to cooking with larger water volumes. For potatoes, which showed great variations in content of phenolic acids after cooking, no significant differences in phenolic acids was observed. It can be concluded from these observations, that real intakes of phenolic compounds from cooked vegetables are lower and that the amounts consumed are therefore overestimated..

So it can be concluded that it is favourable to cook in small volumes of water or to steam and if you add tomato puree to a meal do it as late as possible.

Gerard








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