Kickas.org Forums Ankylosing Spondylitis General Discussion #1 AS Web Support Group Question maybe best suited for Dragonslayer

Been very hectic but my Jamie has for two years since she was 8 been manifesting some signs of autoimmune issues.

In any event a week ago she developed an extensive rash that Doc (GP) didn't have a clue about, dermatologist took biopsy and seemed perplexed but thought also most likely allergic reaction.

Seeing allergist on Monday. Meanwhile the little trooper, now 10, is itching like all heck, running very low grade fever and covered in itchy bumps and redness. Doc told her no ointments for now, taking Zyrtec (cetirizine hydrochloride until Thursday) with not much change. Must stop then so it doesn't give allergist false responses.

In any event seems like a gluten allergy or more. Her belly had been hurting moderately for a few weeks before the rash erupted. Last time the belly issues arose the pediatric GI guy said too soon to do much or evaluate with more serious testing.

My question is ....wouldn't a course of antibiotics help, right now, no matter what the food allergy is? I hate sitting idly waiting for next Doc and not doing anything proactive while this tough kid itches, bellyaching and exhausted.

Thanks.

From what I have read about gut bacteria and allergies/atopy, antibiotics could be harmful but probiotics may be beneficial.

"Perturbations in the gastrointestinal (GI) microbiota composition that occur as a result of antibiotics and diet in ‘westernized’ countries are strongly associated with allergies and asthma. The microbiota plays a crucial role in the development of mucosal tolerance, including the airways...

Although control of the GI microbiota balance is influenced by several factors, including diet, antibiotics can have the most profound impact on an individual’s GI microbiota and antibiotic use in industrialized countries is significantly greater than in developing countries. In a review of the literature, several epidemiological studies have identified a correlation between early antibiotic use in children and the subsequent development of allergies and/or asthma. More recent reports continue to support this link. Studies have also compared children of families with an anthroposophic lifestyle (Steiner schoolchildren) to children in neighboring schools. Anthroposophic children often abstain from antibiotic use and ingest fermented foods containing probiotic organisms. Rates of allergy among these children are significantly lower than that found in the control children, with an inverse correlation between the number of characteristic features of an anthroposophic lifestyle and risk of atopy. Among anthroposophic children, the use of antibiotics early in life was significantly associated with the development of asthma. In addition, the microbiota of anthroposophic children was examined and found to contain higher levels of lactic acid bacteria than children who had previously been exposed to antibiotics. Among a cohort of 1934 non-anthroposophic subjects, antibiotic treatment during the first two years of life was found to be a predictor of subsequent atopic disease. From these studies, it follows that antibiotic use not only alters microbiota composition but also correlates with the development of allergies and/or asthma.

Numerous studies have indicated that probiotic and prebiotic supplementation can produce positive results in both therapeutic and preventative ways. In a randomized placebo-controlled study, oral Lactobacillus rhamnosusGG decreased the incidence of atopic eczema in children at high risk. A follow-up of this study two years later demonstrated that the protection against allergic disease in children who had received previous probiotic supplementation extended beyond infancy... Altogether, these studies point to modulation of the microbiota in children and infants as a preventative or therapeutic strategy against allergic disease."

- 'Does the microbiota regulate immune responses outside the gut?' - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15539116

Hey, Steve:

Regret this is a bit out of my realm, but in young children, I am always reluctant to suggest antibiotics before exhausting other treatments.

So many epidermal manifestations have their root-cause in intestinal issues, and in the case of psoriasis or rosacea, although it can be due to bacteria, the mechanism is not necessarily molecular mimicry.

My recommendation would certainly be to change her diet somewhat radically, and see what things that treat LGS, like quercetin, colostrum, and Stonyfield Farm or Brown Cow yoghurts will do. Also EFA's and especially some GLA and EVOlive Oil, just in small increments.

Meantime, I will do some skulking about when I return home and let You know if I come up with anything important.

Best to go slow and conservative even by now, and I wish You and family HEALTH,
John

Steve,
Just wanted to say I will keep Jamie, close to my heart. Antibiotics, helped me, then almost killed me. If it is a gut issue, finding what she can eat is always best, I did not get the right bacteria saoon enough.

The chore is a tough one, but well worth the habit of eating right. I remember when I got sick my sophomore year the consant itching was such a torment. I still begin to itch some before I break a sweat, when exercising.

Let Jamie that with good eating habits, this is an inconvenince.

Lon

SteveC - John and jroc have it right on the nail. Antibiotics are to be avoided (this is unlikely to be a bacterial infection). And antibiotics kill good gut flora dead! At this juncture, Probiotics need to be the order of the day. IF the allergist comes up with nothing conclusive then go the gluten route, see IF gluten. Which, could also be what is termed a 'silent' gluten problem, and would not show up in a blood test! I have a deal of info on that one. But first, see what the allergist's findings are.

Hope your Jamie improves PDQ.

Ask the allergist about eosinophilic enteritis. I've just been reading up on it to try and make sense of my apparent maize allergy (they don't seem to be able to test that on IgE testing because they haven't isolated a single allergen in maize) that gives me gut symptoms worse than gluten as well as general itchiness and sometimes hives. I'm on a totally gluten free diet with diagnosed coeliac disease so its not that. I do have an unexplained high IgE.

Anyway, it would seem that eosinophilic enteritis is strongly linked to food allergy, so you could easily get that extensive itching as well as gut problems. EE is also getting far more common in kids, though I don't think its common enough yet for many gastroenterologists (or allergists) to be very familiar with. Testing should include IgE and biopsies of the affected area of gut, which would show higher than normal eosinophil counts. Can affect any area of gut from oesophagus to colon, and even if it looks normal on endoscopy it should still be biopsied and checked for eosinophils.

And its autoimmune.

Hope you get answers soon. Your question about whether antibiotics would help? I'd say no, but prednisone would be worth a try - it definitely deals with EE quite well, which antihistamines don't do much for (some, but not much). Obviously you'd have to remove the allergen for any long term benefit. Of course you couldn't try the pred until after allergy testing was done.

Steve, look into fructose malabsorption/intolerance - this sugar problem can cause itching, belly problems etc.

Hugs
Gerri & Makaylah

I would contact this doc, he is good with allergies and he also knows about pediatric Lyme.

http://www.healthydays.info/nutrition_about.html

Mary

Steve,
Before antibiotics I would try just giving her fruits and veggies.
I just watched a documentary rcently about a man with uticaria, an AI rash from head to toe, and he resolved it with juicing veggies and fruits, but for a child I would not recommend a juice fast but just eating fruits and veggies exclusively for a week or to and see if the rash clears.
I took antibiotcs for a staph infection I got days after having my baby boy at the hospital, and I had to take some strong ones. I beleive it messed up my gut, then a couple months later I developed joint pain which in a few more months got me the diagnosis of RA. I hope my opinion is nt to forward, but my dear friens just died of C-Diff last week and it is making me really think about antibiotics. I think that are overused. I willpray for your daughter tonight, take care!
Sheri
ps the documeantary is "Fat Sick and Nearly Dead", its free on the interenet or available on netflix I think .

first, sorry your little one is having symptoms.

when i flare, i first get some vague symptoms: itchy dry eyes, mouth sores, tired, constipation, and general autoimmune rash (mostly on legs, some on back of hands). then i'll have issues with SI joint and maybe other joints.

My rashes stumped the dermatologist. A puncture biopsy said "exuberant immune response". was told it could be autoimmune or allergy.

My rheumy says "generic autoimmune response". cortisone creme on my legs helps a lot in reducing the itching. ice helps just as much, maybe more.

GI: i was constipated a lot as a child. Lots of prune juice. As I got older, i just noticed i needed a ridiculous amount of fiber in my diet. Things got better til i was 30, then gastritis and IBS. took a few years to get that under control, but now it is.

Now I use probiotics (culturelle (lactobacilli) and align (bifobacterium)).

I also had stool sample testing to show i was missing lactobacilli.

I had blood work that showed i was allergic / sensitive to casein in dairy / cow's milk. So i stay away from that.

I read that a lot of people have both gluten and casein allergies, so if you are thinking of going gluten free, maybe cow casein free as well.