Kickas.org Forums Ankylosing Spondylitis General Discussion #1 AS Web Support Group Immune responce vs diet

It's interesting to note that using the latest techniques of identifying bacteria in the body by DNA analysis that the variety of bacteria is increasing rapidly. They've apparently even found hydrothermal vent bacteria on hip joints during replacements according to this article: Metagenome Article

Pretty bizarre stuff and the implications are nearly imponderable, at least to me!

NorCalJim

Although they exist but studies and patients successfully in the diet without starch, who have positive gene HLA, this does not change that others we have been years in remission with the diet and noticing its effects whenever we stopped eliminating starches.

Thanks to find so many forms to explain what happens in our body, hopefully the investigations were but by this way.

Most interesting subject.

Good dialogue!!

Johns said, "...but even if diet is working fine one day, if something happens to open up new lesions in the intestinal tract, more AS activity will happen the next day because there is more bacteria made available to the lymph nodes."

What does he mean by lesions in the intestinal tract? Does everyone with AS have lesions in the intestinal tract or only those with IBD?

Confused about the lesions.

Thanks!

Hey, Faith:

Quote:

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What does he mean by lesions in the intestinal tract? Does everyone with AS have lesions in the intestinal tract or only those with IBD?

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It is my contention, based upon experience and many discussions with Professor Ebringer and others, that the only difference between one genetically susceptible person with AS and the susceptible person without AS is the integrity of the gut.

When studied properly, 50% of all AS patients showed "crohn's-like microlesions" at the terminal ileum (ileo-cecal region). I believe that the answer is yes--everyone with AS has some increased intestinal permeability and this, if taken as a fact, explains myriad observations related to AS.

Most people with AS do not have obvious bowel symptoms, and I never would have made the connection until I began taking NSAIDs (which increased AS activity, overall--one of the key observations).

I have recently heard from people with AS who, instead of remaining on the NSD, decided to work to heal their tract and now only follow an intestinal-building regimen, almost ignoring other aspects of diet, with some success. Other vegetarians (Jackie Le Tissier: "Food Combining for Vegetarians") have had some capacity to be careful about food combinations and able to control milder cases of AS this way.

HEALTH,
John

John,

I'm totally with you on this. I read (and quoted here somewhere, I think in the NSD section) on lesions in the gut in AS from the book Secrets of Rheumotology, but I didn't understand this fully till reading your post. Why do they keep them secret anyway? This also associated microscopic colitis with AS in 30-60% of people, often asymptomatic.

I have microscopic colitis (lymphocytic) to contend with as well, no doubt a reaction to the AS pathogen, and this is where the extra mast cells come into play. At the moment, I have to do NSD low fiber, as anything I put in my gut with fiber irritates it and I get pain, like soreness in my left hip and left thumb this morning...which could mean stirring up those lesions.

It's been a learning curve to start NSD and then realizing I have to do low fiber too, and I didn't really get how low I need to go with the fiber until I investigated the amount in the few vegies I can generally eat. Basically, not too much in the way of vegetables for me at present!

Despite all the bumps, I am very happy and incredibly grateful that I have found the way through the forest with NDS, and just need to keep walking the path till I see the light and open meadow.

I'm so grateful to everyone here who and especially John. You have all been so patient and kind.

Thanks!

Just want to clarify that when you say 'crohn's like microlessions' you are not meaning that we have crohn's disease, but rather lesions that have some similarity to that. Correct?

Hi, Faith:

I'm quoting from memory an old study done on AS patients. Certainly they mean that the lesions "appear" just like Crohn's lesions but are not Crohn's.

The connection between AS and Crohn's is obvious to me, since a very good friend was diagnosed with this years ago, just after my own AS diagnosis. She had symptoms in advance of my own, and I studied about both diseases then and believed the cause and mechanism were the same.

Just recently, there has been some verification that Crohn's and AS are caused by the same germ perhaps showing that the genetic picture more complex because I suppose that we can agree that some other genetic factors can modulate AS up or down but the incidence of B27 in the Crohn's population is below 50%, yet these people can have all the characteristics of AS plus bowel destruction.

I once thought that AS could evolve into Crohn's, but that does not seem to be the case; better to think that it is a more aggressive type of AS that targets the bowel, whereas AS is certainly caused by intestinal issues, but it does not affect the integrity of the bowel itself as much as in Crohn's.

Regards,
John